[teknoids] legal tech boot camp offering?

John Mayer jmayer at cali.org
Thu Feb 15 11:15:06 EST 2018


Relatedly, maybe we should have an actual debate on this.

Question: Should law students be taught to program a computer?


Start with a poll of audience.  3 speakers on each side of 5 minutes each -
with rebuttals of each, so 6 x 5 + 6 x 3 = 48 minutes.

Then poll the audience again and whoever moved the needle the most
(for/against) is declared winner.

Anyone want to be a debater?  Email me and let me know FOR/AGAINST and I
will setup the session.

Bring it or go home crying!

John

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:10 AM, John Mayer <jmayer at cali.org> wrote:

> I'm gonna come down on the "depends on what you mean by code" side of
> this.
>
> We have had great success with the teaching law students about decision
> trees, algorithms, as a side effect of using A2J Author.  It's not "real"
> coding, it's barely scripting, but it's not lawyering either.  Our approach
> was borne of necessity.  Teaching full blown coding just doesn't scale and
> I wanted to get thousands of law students involved (tens of thousands?).
>  There isn't enough interest or justification for law students to learn
> python or javascript (please kill me), but something that results in them
> deconstructing a legal process and seeing how that affects results is very
> useful.
>
> John
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:05 AM, Patrick Wiseman <pwiseman at gsu.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> I hate to disagree with the illustrious and eminent Tom Bruce, but I
>> think teaching law students to code could be useful (not that we _should_
>> do it, but offering students the opportunity to learn how to do it would be
>> a good thing). Figuring out an algorithm to get something done is not too
>> different from what lawyers do, and just-in-time learning (which more
>> coding than you might care to admit is about) is of the essence of legal
>> practice. (But I'll be on the lookout for anyone within shouting distance
>> of a flagpole!)
>>
>> Patrick Wiseman
>> Professor of Law
>> GSU College of Law
>> Member, CALI Board of Directors
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 2:45 PM, Thomas Bruce <tom at liicornell.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Folks:
>>>
>>> I'm in, too.  It raises questions (again) that have been around since
>>> the late 80s, in particular questions about what skills or critical
>>> approaches will have value not only for the technology-du-jour but over the
>>> span of the careers that we allegedly prepare people for. Of course there's
>>> been a bunch of smoke and not much fire around similar questions WRT legal
>>> research.
>>>
>>> I would only ask that anyone who says "we should teach lawyers to code"
>>> be raised on the nearest flagpole by the waistband of their undergarments.
>>> Are there flagpoles handy to the venue? We might need more than one.
>>>
>>> t.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 2:40 PM, Kris Niedringhaus <krisn at gsu.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would love to see this. I'm trying to start a legal tech class and
>>>> I'd love to see what others are doing either in classes or training
>>>> programs.
>>>>
>>>> Kristina L. Niedringhaus
>>>> Associate Dean for Library and Information Services
>>>> Associate Professor of Law
>>>> Georgia State College of Law
>>>> 404.413.9140 <(404)%20413-9140>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 14, 2018, at 2:34 PM, John Joergensen <jjoerg at law.rutgers.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I would love to participate in something like that too.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> John Joergensen
>>>> Senior Associate Dean for Information Services and Professor of Law
>>>> Rutgers Law Schooljjoerg at law.rutgers.edu973-353-3152 <(973)%20353-3152>856-225-6182 <(856)%20225-6182>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> On 02/14/2018 02:30 PM, John Mayer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This would make a great session at CALICon18 - 2018.calicon.org
>>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F2018.calicon.org&data=02%7C01%7Cjjoerg%40law.rutgers.edu%7C6829b8a30e1644625af908d573e17729%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C0%7C636542334603188823&sdata=3j6YX2ZIfbAfo9cpZXmipt66qTu0DhrTrnJ6117o%2BoI%3D&reserved=0>.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Even better (maybe), an afternoon of 2 or 3 sessions - a
>>>> mini-workshop/design-athon where participants collectively design a
>>>> sample curriculum for such a course - getting down as much detail as
>>>> possible for the subjects to be covered, potential speakers/experts,
>>>> materials/books/videos that already exist.
>>>>
>>>> I would participate.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 1:21 PM, Courtney L. Selby <
>>>> Courtney.L.Selby at hofstra.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear All-
>>>>>
>>>>> Are any of your schools offering something like a legal tech  boot
>>>>> camp or law and technology training programming (other than for-credit
>>>>> courses)?  If so, I’d love to get a chance to talk to you about what kind
>>>>> of initiatives you are trying.  We at Hofstra are currently in the
>>>>> brainstorming phase of developing some type of offering.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m not thinking about the Legal Tech Assessment here, but something
>>>>> inclusive of more than just a particular platform or software mastery
>>>>> opportunity.  I’m thinking along the lines of an offering that might
>>>>> include learning about tech literacy/fluency, technology in the delivery of
>>>>> legal services, technology and access to justice, how technology is
>>>>> changing litigation, data security issues, or ethics.  It could also
>>>>> include more specific tech like blockchain or machine learning/AI in legal
>>>>> research.  It could be in-person, asynchronous, over the course of a
>>>>> weekend, over the course of a semester.  There could be some informal or
>>>>> formal credentialing involved, or it could be a purely voluntary program
>>>>> for those who are interested.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have some interesting experience and would be willing to chat,
>>>>> I’d love to hear from you off-list.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Courtney
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Courtney Selby, **JD, MLIS* | *Associate Dean for Information
>>>>> Services, Director of the Law Library and Professor of Law *| Maurice
>>>>> A. Deane School of Law at Hofstra University Law Library
>>>>>
>>>>> 122 Hofstra University | Hempstead, NY 11549 | 516-463-5901
>>>>> <%28516%29%20463-5901> | lawcls at hofstra.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that
>>>>> counts can be counted.
>>>>> - William Bruce Cameron
>>>>>
>>>>> <image001.png>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ----------
>>>> John Mayer
>>>> Executive Director
>>>> Center for Computer-Assisted Legal Instruction/CALI
>>>> 565 West Adams
>>>> Chicago, IL  60661
>>>> 312-906-5307 <(312)%20906-5307>
>>>> 312-906-5280 <(312)%20906-5280> - fax
>>>> jmayer at cali.org
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
>>> Thomas R. Bruce
>>> Director, Legal Information Institute
>>> Cornell Law School
>>> http://www.law.cornell.edu/
>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.law.cornell.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cpwiseman%40gsu.edu%7Caaed4e0cf96e4f42ceea08d573e38029%7C515ad73d8d5e4169895c9789dc742a70%7C0%7C1%7C636542343307861264&sdata=7nye7d6wJym9qvURd0FyQ7yPSOvf3Sg2igCfvNfZkrE%3D&reserved=0>
>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombruce/
>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Ftombruce%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cpwiseman%40gsu.edu%7Caaed4e0cf96e4f42ceea08d573e38029%7C515ad73d8d5e4169895c9789dc742a70%7C0%7C0%7C636542343307861264&sdata=draiApKS9r5ggWgGQGcbHFHDc1JvaPXv07%2FiOXH55Fs%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>> +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> ----------
> John Mayer
> Executive Director
> Center for Computer-Assisted Legal Instruction/CALI
> 565 West Adams
> Chicago, IL  60661
> 312-906-5307 <(312)%20906-5307>
> 312-906-5280 <(312)%20906-5280> - fax
> jmayer at cali.org
> http://www.cali.org
> twitter.com/johnpmayer
> ----------
>



-- 
----------
John Mayer
Executive Director
Center for Computer-Assisted Legal Instruction/CALI
565 West Adams
Chicago, IL  60661
312-906-5307
312-906-5280 - fax
jmayer at cali.org
http://www.cali.org
twitter.com/johnpmayer
----------
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