[teknoids] legal tech boot camp offering?

John Mayer jmayer at cali.org
Thu Feb 15 11:10:25 EST 2018


I'm gonna come down on the "depends on what you mean by code" side of
this.

We have had great success with the teaching law students about decision
trees, algorithms, as a side effect of using A2J Author.  It's not "real"
coding, it's barely scripting, but it's not lawyering either.  Our approach
was borne of necessity.  Teaching full blown coding just doesn't scale and
I wanted to get thousands of law students involved (tens of thousands?).
 There isn't enough interest or justification for law students to learn
python or javascript (please kill me), but something that results in them
deconstructing a legal process and seeing how that affects results is very
useful.

John


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:05 AM, Patrick Wiseman <pwiseman at gsu.edu> wrote:

> I hate to disagree with the illustrious and eminent Tom Bruce, but I think
> teaching law students to code could be useful (not that we _should_ do it,
> but offering students the opportunity to learn how to do it would be a good
> thing). Figuring out an algorithm to get something done is not too
> different from what lawyers do, and just-in-time learning (which more
> coding than you might care to admit is about) is of the essence of legal
> practice. (But I'll be on the lookout for anyone within shouting distance
> of a flagpole!)
>
> Patrick Wiseman
> Professor of Law
> GSU College of Law
> Member, CALI Board of Directors
>
> On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 2:45 PM, Thomas Bruce <tom at liicornell.org> wrote:
>
>> Folks:
>>
>> I'm in, too.  It raises questions (again) that have been around since the
>> late 80s, in particular questions about what skills or critical approaches
>> will have value not only for the technology-du-jour but over the span of
>> the careers that we allegedly prepare people for. Of course there's been a
>> bunch of smoke and not much fire around similar questions WRT legal
>> research.
>>
>> I would only ask that anyone who says "we should teach lawyers to code"
>> be raised on the nearest flagpole by the waistband of their undergarments.
>> Are there flagpoles handy to the venue? We might need more than one.
>>
>> t.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 2:40 PM, Kris Niedringhaus <krisn at gsu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> I would love to see this. I'm trying to start a legal tech class and I'd
>>> love to see what others are doing either in classes or training programs.
>>>
>>> Kristina L. Niedringhaus
>>> Associate Dean for Library and Information Services
>>> Associate Professor of Law
>>> Georgia State College of Law
>>> 404.413.9140 <(404)%20413-9140>
>>>
>>> On Feb 14, 2018, at 2:34 PM, John Joergensen <jjoerg at law.rutgers.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I would love to participate in something like that too.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> John Joergensen
>>> Senior Associate Dean for Information Services and Professor of Law
>>> Rutgers Law Schooljjoerg at law.rutgers.edu973-353-3152 <(973)%20353-3152>856-225-6182 <(856)%20225-6182>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> On 02/14/2018 02:30 PM, John Mayer wrote:
>>>
>>> This would make a great session at CALICon18 - 2018.calicon.org
>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F2018.calicon.org&data=02%7C01%7Cjjoerg%40law.rutgers.edu%7C6829b8a30e1644625af908d573e17729%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C0%7C636542334603188823&sdata=3j6YX2ZIfbAfo9cpZXmipt66qTu0DhrTrnJ6117o%2BoI%3D&reserved=0>.
>>>
>>>
>>> Even better (maybe), an afternoon of 2 or 3 sessions - a
>>> mini-workshop/design-athon where participants collectively design a
>>> sample curriculum for such a course - getting down as much detail as
>>> possible for the subjects to be covered, potential speakers/experts,
>>> materials/books/videos that already exist.
>>>
>>> I would participate.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 1:21 PM, Courtney L. Selby <
>>> Courtney.L.Selby at hofstra.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear All-
>>>>
>>>> Are any of your schools offering something like a legal tech  boot camp
>>>> or law and technology training programming (other than for-credit
>>>> courses)?  If so, I’d love to get a chance to talk to you about what kind
>>>> of initiatives you are trying.  We at Hofstra are currently in the
>>>> brainstorming phase of developing some type of offering.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’m not thinking about the Legal Tech Assessment here, but something
>>>> inclusive of more than just a particular platform or software mastery
>>>> opportunity.  I’m thinking along the lines of an offering that might
>>>> include learning about tech literacy/fluency, technology in the delivery of
>>>> legal services, technology and access to justice, how technology is
>>>> changing litigation, data security issues, or ethics.  It could also
>>>> include more specific tech like blockchain or machine learning/AI in legal
>>>> research.  It could be in-person, asynchronous, over the course of a
>>>> weekend, over the course of a semester.  There could be some informal or
>>>> formal credentialing involved, or it could be a purely voluntary program
>>>> for those who are interested.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you have some interesting experience and would be willing to chat,
>>>> I’d love to hear from you off-list.
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Courtney
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Courtney Selby, **JD, MLIS* | *Associate Dean for Information
>>>> Services, Director of the Law Library and Professor of Law *| Maurice
>>>> A. Deane School of Law at Hofstra University Law Library
>>>>
>>>> 122 Hofstra University | Hempstead, NY 11549 | 516-463-5901
>>>> <%28516%29%20463-5901> | lawcls at hofstra.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that
>>>> counts can be counted.
>>>> - William Bruce Cameron
>>>>
>>>> <image001.png>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ----------
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
>> Thomas R. Bruce
>> Director, Legal Information Institute
>> Cornell Law School
>> http://www.law.cornell.edu/
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.law.cornell.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cpwiseman%40gsu.edu%7Caaed4e0cf96e4f42ceea08d573e38029%7C515ad73d8d5e4169895c9789dc742a70%7C0%7C1%7C636542343307861264&sdata=7nye7d6wJym9qvURd0FyQ7yPSOvf3Sg2igCfvNfZkrE%3D&reserved=0>
>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/tombruce/
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Ftombruce%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cpwiseman%40gsu.edu%7Caaed4e0cf96e4f42ceea08d573e38029%7C515ad73d8d5e4169895c9789dc742a70%7C0%7C0%7C636542343307861264&sdata=draiApKS9r5ggWgGQGcbHFHDc1JvaPXv07%2FiOXH55Fs%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
>>
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>
>
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-- 
----------
John Mayer
Executive Director
Center for Computer-Assisted Legal Instruction/CALI
565 West Adams
Chicago, IL  60661
312-906-5307
312-906-5280 - fax
jmayer at cali.org
http://www.cali.org
twitter.com/johnpmayer
----------
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